Meetings 8 — 10

We’ve been working on a presentation to take to the people, and/or who/what will have us.

We have settled on showing 2 – 4 short videos on Global Warming science and solutions.

The idea is we’d have an introduction, show a video, have an open discussion, then, once discussion dies down, show another video.

Hopefully these will be videos most people wouldn’t seek out on their own. Even if they have seen this before, we will provide a forum to talk about them.

The videos would be listed on the program, in case folk would prefer to view them on their own.

So far the videos being considered are the IPCC video from a previous post, this one,

and others we are trying to track down.

Videos will be 10 — 20 minutes.

 

 

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4 thoughts on “Meetings 8 — 10

  1. Cleanshooter

    OK so here is the thing I don’t understand about Global Warming and I’m hoping Matt will take some time to reply to this.

    I’m going to list some of the bad things that will/could happen if CO2 emissions are left unchecked.

    – So as he indicates if left unchecked the earth will return to a CO2 ppm off 400 which the earth hasn’t seen since long before humans existed.
    – Species will die off maybe even go extinct, from Polar Bears to Pine Trees (unless they can adapt).
    – Higher temperatures mean a higher likely hood of heat related deaths (especially among the elderly)
    – There will be more rouge ice bergs in the ocean for barges to try and dodge.
    – Oceans sections could become more acidic and uninhabitable which means there will be less fish for food
    – Agriculture will be less productive
    – Higher sea levels means there will be less habitable land
    – All of these factors will compound into dramatic instability to the economy. Increased scarcity could lead to violence and eventually war.

    So I think I’ve covered some of the “big bad things” that could happen. But now here is my question, “Why are these things bad?” Most things on this list are bad for a growing population of humans but what if it’s not the items on the list that are bad but our growing population that is bad. As human we often make an assumption and that is human population growth is good and keeping people alive is good. Well looking at the results it clearly is having an impact on our planet and the impacts so far contradict the basic assumption that we generally make. If all of these things happen the result is that there will be less people that can survive on the planet and maybe that is a good thing. If the humans of past and present generations were not smart enough to try and strike a balance in their environment then our species probably deserves what is coming. I’m not saying we need to start killing each other here but think about it, what does nature do when a species population booms outside of the capacity of the environment? Simple, it changes and the environment becomes less habitable for them.

    The environment changing because of us should not surprise anyone. And future generations will have to survive the choices made by earlier generations. But our species will survive this in the long run, heck we survived the ice age once already right? It’s just the nature of things really.

    So whats the problem or the crisis? A species on the planet grew to fast and consumed to much and doomed it self for a population drop. To that I say “what else is new” because that has been happening on this planet for thousands of years. Maybe it’s time that a few million people die so our species learns the simple lesson that we should not consume outside our environmental restraints.

    -Joe

    Reply
  2. ilfark2 Post author

    Ok, so when you say “he” I suppose you’re referring to the Hal Harvey, in the video. I have only watched the first 17 min 43 seconds, so anything after that I have no idea. Perhaps I should watch it, since it’s all on this site. We plan to only show the first 17 min.

    Regardless.

    The salient points of the first 17 min are that Global Warming is happening faster than we’d anticipated and it is human caused. We have solutions using current technology. We can even use market systems, with massive government involvement, to fix it in the next 10 years. If we don’t fix it in the next 10 years, it will be much harder to do so in the future.

    Addressing your post.

    As to the 400 ppm CO2 concentration, we are already there. According to the IPCC, following business as usual, we could have a 1000 ppm by 2100. It is important to note, this does not account for methane and CO2 in the arctic, so with feedbacks, we could get there very much sooner. The IPCC is very conservative in this regard. Jim Hansen, among others, show evidence that a 1.5 to 1.8 degree (Celsius) rise could lead to feedbacks that would release enough methane and CO2 from bogs and the arctic, to start the runaway effect that lead to the Paleo Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM). There were 2 other similar heating events in earth’s geologic past.

    The palaeontological record suggests a range of 500 to 1500 ppm, during the PETM. The range is due to very different data sets (ice cores, sediments etc.).

    These events happened rapidly, i.e., in 10’s of thousands of years and led to very large extinction events.

    This time is different, since humans are filling the atmosphere with green house gases at least 120 times faster than previous events.

    If there is another PETM, and many in the climate community suspect will definitely happen if we cross the 2 degree mark and start the feedbacks that will lead to 6 – 8 degrees warmer, as it was during the PETM, 70 – 90% of currently arable land will no longer grow crops. 50 – 70% of the land mass on earth will be uninhabitable on the surface because the wet-bulb temperature will be so high.

    Of course we could live underground, use Photovoltaics to power LEDs to grow food (see a company called Plant Lab), but it would be a massive shift in ways of life.

    As far as adaptation, in the past, species had more time, usually millions of years, to adapt. Even leading up to the PETM, they had 10s of thousands of years. We’re doing this much faster.

    Most likely some species will survive. As for humans, estimates, based on current land usage and lifestyles, are that 10%of the population might survive. This assumes there isn’t a collapse that wipes humans off the planet.

    We are already beginning to see the effects of severe weather. The inability to grow food will likely lead to large numbers of people moving, or trying to move somewhere they won’t starve. This could get very messy. This could happen within the next 50 years.

    Could we deal with it? Certainly. Can the planet live without so many species cluttering it up? Obviously yes.

    Which leaves at the big answer to the big question. In a geologic, evolutionary sense, is anthropogenic global warming a problem?

    The answer is no.

    In order to make peace with what it happening, I have convinced myself to conflate the rearrangement of the planet and it’s accompanying mass extinction caused by capitalist human civilization with an asteroid.

    Asteroids hit the earth. One was really bad for the dinosaurs.

    Humans are just a bit less inevitable.

    And of course one must ask, well what if the IPCC is correct, and we have 50 – 100 years? What it the global warming deniers are correct, and we have nothing at all to worry about?

    Consider remaking the economy using all wind, water and solar and Delucchi and Jacobson have show is possible. Consider capturing carbon. Consider a clean economic system, expanded using printed money, as done for WWII, causing full employment and cleaner ait to break out.

    But if people like Hansen are correct, the world is going to get very scary, very quickly.

    Is it really worth that gamble?

    Thanks for the post.

    Reply
    1. Cleanshooter

      “Which leaves at the big answer to the big question. In a geologic, evolutionary sense, is anthropogenic global warming a problem?

      The answer is no.”

      Thanks for making the effort to respond. This line makes me giggle.

      “And of course one must ask, well what if the IPCC is correct, and we have 50 – 100 years? What it the global warming deniers are correct, and we have nothing at all to worry about?

      Consider remaking the economy using all wind, water and solar and Delucchi and Jacobson have show is possible. Consider capturing carbon. Consider a clean economic system, expanded using printed money, as done for WWII, causing full employment and cleaner ait to break out.

      But if people like Hansen are correct, the world is going to get very scary, very quickly.

      Is it really worth that gamble?”

      This is a great point and you are absolutely right. If we could do all the things you are considering then why aren’t we? Honestly, I don’t understand what is holding us back. If these options are truly viable and could sustain the growth people are accustom to shouldn’t we be doing it on a global scale already? I suspect that even if some of them prove to be possible they would have their draw backs though. I’d be interested to know just how viable these options are.

      I say the world needs to get scary again. People in general have become too complacent and have been lulled into a false sense of security. The bulk of humans don’t actually think it could happen because it never has in the entirety of human history. As a species we are a proverbial deer in the headlights at this point.

      Dare I say we can’t fix stupid and the world is full of them?

      Personally I’m going to start doomsday prepping, buying land on the high ground & stockpiling. They are all laughing at me now but we’ll see who’s laughing when “two days before the day after tomorrow” hits! – j/k

      Reply

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